A View on Buddhism

[Gary]

There is a quote I have taken from one of the pages on this website which pretty much sums up what I think being a Buddhist is supposed yo be about:

"Do not commit any unwholesome actions,
Accumulate virtuous deeds,
Tame and train your own mind."
Shakyamuni Buddha

There are certain aspects of Buddhism which I am slightly uncomfortable with, or maybe just don't fully understand yet. Sometimes it appears to me that there may be things which are almost a sort of dogma, for example prayers, chanting, making altars, reciting mantras, mala beads, etc.

These things kind of remind me on the Catholic Church in a way. I grew up in a very Catholic society but never bought into it myself, because I didn't see the point in any of the things you 'had' to do. Saying a certain prose in front of a certain image (Stations of the Cross,) repeating the same prayer over and over again (The Rosary,) praying to a personified god to ask him for things, standing/sitting/kneeling at different times during the Mass, etc...

I suppose you could say I saw Catholics practicing these things as kind of being like 'sheep,' just following what everyone else was doing without any of it ever really serving any real purpose.

Am I just being 'romantic' in thinking that Buddhism is more of a meaningful way of life as opposed to just another religion?

(Note: Mods, if you feel this post in in any way inappropriate or disrespectful, by all means feel free to delete it. That is definitely not my intention. I tried my best to word this post as respecfully as I possibly could)
_________________
Oneness is reality.
Oneness perceived is duality.
Duality is illusion.
Oneness perceived is illusion.

[Mitch White]

Gary:

First, Rudy seldom deletes posts unless you just go way berserk on us. We don’t have a bunch of censors here. So chill out and ask away buddy.
Now this answer is just mine; others will have a different answer, but so what and here goes.

Indeed:

"Do not commit any unwholesome actions,
Accumulate virtuous deeds,
Tame and train your own mind."
Shakyamuni Buddha

Easy to say and a child can understand it, but can you simply do it?

Those things you mention fall under the heading of what we call skillful means.

Buddhism is indeed a philosophy of transformation but true transformation is difficult. In most religions God will transform you, do all the work if you just let him into your heart...
and do as your told -In essence you get a free ride.


Buddhist believe you must apply what we call “skillful means” to accomplish this transformation, they are a tool nothing more.

Buddha taught that all teachings in the end are provisional, skilful means are not an end unto themselves. They are a vehicle or raft to cross the river on. We there fore apply the concept of upaya (or upayakausalya), 'skilful means', to help accomplish our own transformation, the term applies to all methods of seeking awaking. This can mean a general principle, a method like chanting or meditation, a word from your teacher or all of Buddhism.

A western Philosopher named Wittgenstein said about his own writings in his Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus that:

'My propositions are elucidatory in this way: he who understands me finally recognizes them as senseless, when he has climbed out through them, on them, over them. (He must so to speak throw away the ladder, after he has climbed up on it).

In most religions these things often become empty ritual and that can happen in Buddhism as well, if you let it.

I suggest if you don’t see the point in a practice or a thing, try and find out what its supposed to be, if you just don’t get it, forget it.


People look around and find the fit that suits them, some times this means they get no where, cause they just hear what they already know.. but you have to decide, test and evaluate..

kick the tires and take it for a spin.


_________________
"Investigate Right Where You're Standing"
Master Chu-hung

[rudyh01]

Hi Gary,

I could not supress a smile when reading your post. This could have been my question 20 years ago

Therefore, my personal answer to this. I was also brought up as a Catholic, so I know exactly where you are coming from.
Almost the whole thing with extensive ritual has its basis in tantric practice in Buddhism; the mantras, ritual objects and instruments, mandalas etc. Tantric practice is an advanced meditation practice that uses all this ritual which has very deep symbolic meanings simply as training techniques. Tantra does take a pretty good understanding of the Buddhist path as a basis, and then a personal teacher, initiation rituals etc. Looking from the outside at all these rituals is totally confusing for the average westerner. A simple example: If someone does not know how to read and write, how is he supposed to understand anything about wordprocessing on a computer?

A few words on the Catholic background; this is very personal, and certainly not intended to insult Catholicism, but just how I have come to see it over the years. One of my reasons to reject Catholicism/Christianity was exactly this blind-faith based attitude, rituals one did not understand and 'no questions allowed' (you still reflect this because you are afraid that your questions will insult us). Artificially, you can see similar things in Buddhism, but they are quite different in close-up.
Prayers are very different; instead of begging God to help you, and not strike you down, in Buddhism we know we actually need to do everything ourselves, so we pray for inspiration and the ability we can walk the path without hindrances.
Dogma: The Buddha explicitely explained he was not preaching dogma. Instead, he taught what he had discovered, and if we find it appealing, we should thoroughly investigate it before accepting and practicing it.
Ritual: As I mentioned above, all ritual in Buddhism has very deep symbolic meaning, that is also important to understand when practicing it. Although these rituals do influence our subconsciously, I found it helped me tremendously when I discovered symbolic meanings behind it, because I finally discovered the reason for doing things. Unfortunately, my impression in Catholicism is that symbolism is hardly explained - if even understood by the priests. Therefore, the ritual in Catholicism requires blind faith and mindless following rather then critical investigation. The opposite is true in Buddhism; the Buddha spoke out clearly against meaningless ritual. To me that means that if ritual cannot be explained by teachers and scriptures, I keep my distance from it. However, I have not really found any meaningless ritual so far, even in the complexity of tantra.

Then there are other practices like recitation of texts. These are not only part of tantra, but common in probably all traditions of Buddhism. One can say they have several effects. Firstly, by reading a text, you will gradually understand the teachings in it, so that's pretty simple. Recitation makes reading a text somehow more intense, and not only yourself, but also animals around you can hear the texts, which can be like a blessing to them, or a kind of mental preparation for a later understanding of these texts. This extra effort of reciting to help others as well, creates positive karma for ourselves as well, so that we will be able to hear the teachings in the future for example.
If you don't think that recitation of a sutra has any effect on your mind, that is quite understandable, but I would challenge you to try it out, then you can say for yourself that there is no effect. *throwing a glove again*

So it all comes down to testing these teachings. Your questions here are excellent, because this is the easiest way to begin testing them, you need reasons to do all this stuff. And I strongly recommend that you don't do any practices at all until you understand them at least a little bit, and have a feeling that you are not doing meaningless ritual. Such a critical attitude will be of great benefit; test and question everything, that is the Buddhist way towards faith and confidence. Mindless sheep do not get enlightened.
_________________
Love & clear light,
Rudy

[Me, myself and I]

Thanks for these great answers! (Yes I am still there, though very silent.)
Makes me feel much more comfortable with many things in Buddhism that I still find very strange at least...

Greetings
Sarah

[Gary]

[Nools]

I've been wondering the same thing since I became interested in Buddhism at the beginning of this year. That question and the answers are really useful to me.

Could anyone explain a bit more about prayer in Buddhism? I'm also from a Catholic background so when I prayed it was to God, Holy Mary or at exam time St Jude (patron saint of hopeless cases )

When Buddhists pray, who are they praying to?

[Mitch White]

Nools:


Buddhism has many folks to pray to, bodhisattvas and Buddha’s and such:

For example:

In Tantric Buddhism specifically the Guluckpa have at least 6 deities they pray to: Yamantaka, Guhyasamaja, Chakrasamvara Avalokiteshvara, Manjushri and Tara,


But As with all our prior belief systems we must lose our old definitions when we shift into a new religion. Westerners tend to use prayer in order to manipulate their God to work for their benefit. Wanting Him to play favorites, they beg to be blessed by Him at the expense of others. However, this attitude defeats the power of prayer.

A Buddhist is supposed to believe that in order for prayer to be effective it must be devoid of any self-centeredness and calculation, relying strictly on great compassion. It should be done to strengthen and open our hearts, and to benefit all beings. Buddhist prayer has nothing to do with begging for personal worldly or heavenly gains... Prayers and offerings are used to establish your “right intent” and help you generate Bodhicitta. This is of course the ideal, I am sure many Buddhist fall back into asking for a winning lottery number from time to time.

It is only human that we might believe that bodhisattvas and/or Buddha’s will help us in our practice. It is also human to ask for help when we are in distress even when we know better. Other Buddhist pray to the Buddha in his form bodies for his help and guidance. There are numerous linage masters such as Tsongkhapa Je who Buddhist believe are living Bodhisattvas and will aid them in their practice. Other Buddhist pray to the future Buddha to appear soon.

Please except my explaination as an offering of guidance, I am in no means an expert and do not wish to offend any religion, especially my own.


_________________
"Investigate Right Where You're Standing"
Master Chu-hung

[rudyh01]

Yes, as Mitch mentioned, in Tantric Buddhism one prays to Buddha-forms, but one very large difference with Catholicism is that these prayers do not regard the Buddhas as 'out there' to come and help us.

There are different types of prayers of course, but often these are praises, in which we consider the Buddhas and Bodhisattvas as role-models for ourselves, or there are the meditations in which one actually imagines oneself to be a Buddha. That last is generally only allowed after receiving an initiation and being under the guidance of a qualified teacher. Just imagine the effect when in meditation you identify with the person of Jesus; you will find it nearly impossible to feel anger or closed-heartedness when you do that. In tantra that effect is taken to its extreme to work on our limited self-image, and to be able to 'jump over our own shadow' so to speak.

I am only familiar with prayers in the Tibetan tradition. An example of a prayer that I would call an inspirational/motivational prayer is:

[Tamara]

Oh, nice prayers, Rudy, ..... in 2005 I spent months listening to the 7-Limb-Prayer, chanted by Lama Zopa Rinpoche.

Then I had to give the CD back to the Buddhist Center , but Lama Zopa`s voice is still with me.

Again:

``Respectfully I prostrate with body, speech and mind;

I present clouds of every type of offerings, actual and imagined;

I declare all the negative actions I have done since beginningless time,
and rejoice in the merit of all Aryas and ordinary beings.

Please teacher, remain until cyclic existence ends
and turn the wheel of Dharma for all sentient beings.

I dedicate the virtues of myself and others to the great Enlightenment.



Tamara

[Nools]

Thank you - your replies really help me understand better.

Those prayers express beautiful sentiments and I really like the idea that one prays to benefit others. That is something I did as a Catholic but I admit sometimes it was for my own benefit. You explained that really well Mitch, thank you. Rudy, what you said has helped me get to grips with some of the ideas I've been reading about on a Kagyu Buddhist site.

I've realised that the supernatural aspects of Buddhism make me feel a bit uneasy and my mind is quite closed to that. Perhaps it's because I stopped being a Christian because I found I could no longer believe in God. I know deities in Buddhism aren't creator-type gods but nonetheless, I struggle with the idea of anything supernatural. I want to have an open mind and I hope my opinions aren't disrespectful - I truly don't mean to be disrespectful of anyone's beliefs. I'm just trying to understand as much as I can about Buddhism and how it fits with my attitudes and beliefs.

Thanks again - I'm sure I'll have lots more questions as I read more and it percolates through my brain!

[WuMing426]

Nools, firstly, welcome. And to the point of the thread, I would just challenge you to reexamine what you hold to be 'supernatural.' As an enlightened being, the Buddha and Tara (among others) have an understanding of 'reality' that far exceeds our own. To that end, giving a helpful 'push' or an assist is not beyond their capabilities, or our own, once we have also attained this enlightened state. When we use the term supernatural or any other to refer to things that seem outside the realm of our understanding, we are trying to limit the world to those things we can label and grasp. I think there is so much more to the universe than those things we can sceptically explain, and a Buddha has full knowledge of all of this. So for Mother Tara to help in my everyday life, I think is extremely possible, and very likely, with the caveat that this help be for our true benefit. You know, bodhicitta and all that.
That at least, is my take on things. I do have a bit of worthy support in this thinking, but any errors are still my own.
_________________
A society will be judged by the way it treats its most vulnerable members- the animals. -Gandhi
Everything comes to pass, nothing comes to stay. -Matthew Flickstein
One who hates the feline is one not to be trusted.- Chinese proverb

[Nools]

Hi WuMing - thank you for the welcome and for the thought-provoking reply.

[WuMing426]

I will try to expound on what I think happens when I pray, mostly to Mother Tara and Guru Rinpoche.
First, Guru Rinpoche has promised that he will be present when anyone genuinely calls to him, uses his mantra, etc. (As someone who has taken Refuge in the Nyingma tradition, Guru Rinpoche is a VERY big deal to us.) Do I think that some omnipresent being swoops in and 'fixes' everything for me? No. Do I think a being with a complete, full understanding of reality comes to help me, by possibly manipulating some circumstance, to provide compassionate assistance to someone else, or myself? Yes, I do. Example: When I was trying to rescue the latest kitten, I wasn't doing so for my own benefit. I was just trying to be of help to another sentient being. I called upon Mother Tara and Ksitigharba for help, as I did so. In my opinion, I was judged for my motivation, and found acceptable. They helped me be successful, and the end result was the compassionate rescue of a kitten. But I also benefited, in that I earned much merit by my actions. It wasn't why I did it, but the result was merit, anyway.
I don't pray for any selfish result, and I don't expect 'god' to move mountains to make my way easy. But, I do expect, that should my motivation be found acceptable, some assistance will be forthcoming, but the help will be in the direction of furthering the Dharma. It may not be the type of help I think I want, but it will be the kind of help that the situation really warrants.
Yeah?
_________________
A society will be judged by the way it treats its most vulnerable members- the animals. -Gandhi
Everything comes to pass, nothing comes to stay. -Matthew Flickstein
One who hates the feline is one not to be trusted.- Chinese proverb

[WuMing426]

Oh, and please don't feel any 'ignorance.' No one starts at the end. We all start somewhere, and I am chief among those who need to learn. I am very good with 'facts,' but am continually challenged with real implementation of the information into my everyday life.
I'm a "Jeopardy" queen, but am a very imperfect person, day to day.
_________________
A society will be judged by the way it treats its most vulnerable members- the animals. -Gandhi
Everything comes to pass, nothing comes to stay. -Matthew Flickstein
One who hates the feline is one not to be trusted.- Chinese proverb

[Mitch White]

I gave the term supernatural a toss out the window once I really considered my situation, a bunch of chemical process's having self awareness, dreams and fears and an imagination. As I sit, a tiny blob of protoplasm, on a ball of mud hurling through space, after an unimaginable explosion, in the midst of a billion, billion stars all burning at temperatures beyond my tolerance, what exactly is supernatural…?


_________________
"Investigate Right Where You're Standing"
Master Chu-hung